Friday Veepstakes

There has been a lot of talk about Rust Belt and white voters this week.  And white voters are still a majority in this country, so it's a valid point.  So, if the candidates don't chose each other, then they have some vetting to do.

Thus I bring you the White Christian Male edition of Friday Veepstakes.  Let's take a look at the eligible runningmates in this category...

Joe Biden, Delaware.  Pros: he's got extensive experience in the US Senate, particularly in foreign policy and he is (relatively) well known - particularly in the Philadelphia media market because he is from Delaware.  Cons: He comes from Delaware...home to 3 electoral votes.

Evan Bayh, Indiana.  Pros: former Governor, current Senator, experienced, and comes from an important Rust Belt state.  Cons: Picking-up Bayh doesn't guarantee carrying Indiana, might not add a lot of "punch" to the ticket.

Ted Strickland, Ohio.  Pros: experienced - former Congressman and current Governor.  Well known and liked in the region.  Cons: Strickland was just elected in 2006, last name is kind of long - hard to fit on a yard sign!

Wesley Clark, Ark.  Pros: former four-star General, brings military and foreign policy experience to the ticket, helps in middle America, looks good in a sweater.  Cons: maybe not as charismatic as some of the others, may not carry his home state.

Bill Nelson, Florida.  Pros: current US Senator and astronaut yes ASTRONAUT.  Brings in 25 electoral votes from Florida, might be the olive branch necessary to bring voters home.  Also could counter if McCain were to pick Florida Republican Governor Charlie Christ.  Cons: Not as much experience with issues overseas (even though he's got some in outer space) and may not be able to counter if McCain were to pick Gov. Christ.

Bill Bradley, New Jersey.  Pros: former US Senator from New Jersey, lots of experience at the federal level and with tax policy, well-known and respected among Democrats and Republicans.  Was a former NCAA tournament MVP so he has some star appeal.  Cons: doesn't really have that much foreign policy experience.

Long shot/dark horse pick - Ben Chandler, Kentucky.  Pros: Congressman who sits on Appropriations and comes from a state that Bill Clinton won twice.  Cons: not much foreign policy experience, only in office four years, and comes from a state the George W. Bush won twice.

Comments

[Kasturba]

Aren't most of the people on this list declared Clinton supporters?

[Nate]

Yah all of them but Biden. Scary, huh? Nary a mention of how that would go down....also, Mr. Super doesn't mention the obvious Obama supporters like Sebelius and Richardson (and the corresponding constituencies they attract).

Hrmm.....tea-leaves indeed.

[Mr Super]

Bayh, Clark and Strickland are Clinton supporters. But once the nomination is determined, it doesn't really make a difference. Bradley is an Obama supporter, Biden is undeclared and Nelson is not a Superdelegate.

Nate - yesterday you questioned my comprehension skills and today you completely miss the mark on this being a "White Christian Male" edition of Friday Veepstakes. Oh the irony...

[Dan_in_upstate_NY]

There are at least a few other white Chrisian males who would do just fine for Obama:

Tim Kaine
Jim Webb
Bill Bradley

There's always John Edwards or Al Gore, too--but they've both ruled out dong the VP thing again.

[Grapevine]

Assuming Obama gets the nomination, it might be a good idea for him to pick a prominent Clinton supporter, to help bring the party back together and all. Clark, Bayh, and Strickland would all bring something to the table for him, too, so they should definitely be on his short list.

[Mr Super]

I like all of the Virginia Democrats, but they each pose hurdles: Kaine vacating his seat will put a Republican back in the Virginia Governor's mansion. Jim Webb brings the war experience to the ticket, but not much experience in politics. Though I suppose he was an Cabinet Undersecretary under Reagan, so that's got to account for something.

I could see a scenario where Webb is selected and, if he is elected, Kaine runs for the open Senate seat.

[Dan_in_upstate_NY]

OK, this is too much fun, and I don't feel like working today. A few more names for Obama:

Sherrod Brown (fresh face, Ohio)

Anthony Zinni (military credentials...but no interest in running for office)

Bob Kerrey (moderate, military background)

[Nate]

Woah, woah woah. I skimmed too quickly and missed Bradley (who would be an interesting choice for Obama and even Clinton), but the rest are Clinton supporters. That Bill Nelson is not technically a super-delegate doesn't really address what I'm pointing out--which is that your list contains 4 staunch Clinton supporters and 1 Obama supporter. "White Christian Male" was not my criticism really, and looking back on it I'm disappointed I included only Sebelius and Richardson if it gave that impression

My point was simply that the list is extremely Clinton-heavy, and for purposes of those reading this forum, that might indicate something--that's all.

[Same As It Ever Was]

Nelson's not a super delegate? I thought all sitting Senators are super delegates.

[TheSteve]

The reason the "White Christian Male" veep list is not necessarily Obama-heavy is because Obama lacks appealing veep choices in this category. Most of his big-name supporters in this vein are too polarizing (Ted Kennedy - also holds a little too much Senate prominence to want to leave), too young (Pat Murphy) or just generally bad ideas (John Kerry). I honestly can't come up with a decent veep pick in the Obama camp that falls into this category. That being said, of course, there's no guarantee the VP will be a WCM, but I digress. I think Gore would make a great VP, though I doubt he would accept the position again. I don't think Bayh would make a great pick for Obama personally, but mostly that's just bias on my part because of all the nonsense Bayh as been spewing lately - though I suppose the argument could be made that Bayh's posturing does not jibe well with Obama's message Mr. Super's right in saying post-primary most of these shenanigans will be forgotten if not forgiven.

[Kasturba]

About Strickland: I got to tell you, the mental image of Hillary Clinton shouting while waving her sheaf of flyers, and Strickland like a bobblehead doll in the background makes it very hard for me to take him seriously. Seriously, see the video.

I see that he brings Ohio. But geez does he bring plausibility? If something happens, do you see him taking over as President? Eww.

[Same As It Ever Was]

Oops. Just realized he's not technically a Super because he's from Florida. Sorry.

[TheSteve]

Sameasiteverwas,

Nelson is a Senator in Florida. Florida had their delegates stripped - Supers included. Personally, I think the Florida Supers should stay stripped regardless of whether or not Florida is seated in some way, since they were largely responsible for the travesty the situation there has become. But that's a topic for another thread...

[John]

Why must VP candidates be white males to appeal to white heartland voters? Most swing voters in general elections in key states like Ohio are white working-class women and white middle-class suburban women. Maybe there aren't any white women VP possibilities who will win these groups (other than Hillary Clinton)?

[John]

When supers and the nominee are thinking about winning, an article by Alan Abramowitz in the New Republic is interesting.

Quoting from the article: "The fact that Democratic identifiers now decisively outnumber Republican identifiers means that in order to win, Democrats only have to unite and turn out their own base."

This suggests simply put Obama-Clinton as the ticket, get the voters out and it will be won. We simply need to make sure the Dems are united, and the best way to do that is to put the two together on one ticket. These other names listed here in the veep stakes don't get to this unity at all.

The article:
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=75f776fe-3f70-4893-9a2e-e5a557d761ee

[suekzoo]

I would hold Jim Webb for something other than VP, like maybe Sec'y of Defense, especially if Obama is the nominee. Two fresh Senators on a ticket just does not feel right.

I like Bill Bradley on an Obama ticket really well. They seem suited and balanced.

Kathleen Sebelius on an Obama ticket could be very interesting. She might shore up the women's vote, and she could put Kansas in play for the Dems. But! Is she interested?

[Dave]

Clinton is like a little ankle biting chow. Obama would never pick her for VP. He would be running around with sore ankles all the time. He is going with Waxman nothing like a Bull Dog to protect him in the White House.

[Dan_in_upstate_NY]

Forget the Obama-Clinton idea. For Obama to choose Hillary as his running mate completely obliterates the entire premise & appeal of his candidacy. He may as well choose Bill Clinton, in that scenario.

[Dave]

Just kidding figure I better add this as someone might take that last one serious.

[Bilbo]

How about Sam Nunn?

[CrankyKate]

Mr. Super - I love your Webb/Kaine scenario if we could find a good D to run for governor. I've got a real fondness for Webb and I think his time in Reagan's administration would help reinforce Obama's image as a moderate who can reach across ideological lines. My only concern is whether Clinton backers would buy in to that ticket. Question for you: will we be able to wait to announce our VP until after McCain does, and do you think it's wise to do so if we can?

Grapevine - agreed, that's the way to bring angry Clinton supporters back into the fold. I would love to see Rendell for this purpose. Yes he's gaffe-prone, but he's also gone on record as saying that the supporters of whoever loses get 10 days to pout, then they have to get back on the horse and work their butts off for the nominee. He's got the cred with Clinton's base to help ease the pain. And given that his gaffes usually occur when he opens his big mouth to say something that's unpopular but true, he'd fit just fine with Obama's ideology.

Thanks again Mr. Super - and thanks to the commenters here for (mostly) keeping things civil. After reading comment threads at other sites, this place is a breath of fresh air.

[Bilbo]

CrankyKate - I'm from PA so I find the Rendell suggestion interesting, might help carry this important state. Kerry got it in 2004, so I'm thinking we don't need him as VP. As great as he was as Mayor of Philadelphia, the luster has worn off as Governor of Pennsylvania at least in my view. So, I'm hoping he doesn't get the call.

[Kelly]

I think putting a Clinton supporter on the ticket with Obama would be the right way to go. Anybody but Hillary herself.

[suekzoo]

I nominate Sen. Clinton for Secretary of Health & Human Services! :o)

[Joe]

Gore would probably be the best one in this category, but I guess he won't do it. Clark is probably the second best.

But I tend to think that Obama might do better picking a woman. Well, any woman but Hillary. With her, the Republicans will be able to focus more hate against the team. And I already feel like they're holding back a little, waiting to find the most damaging time to bring old issues up again. But that's just me.

[Michael from FL]

What, no women? Perhaps picking a woman (non-HRC woman that is)will help heal the riff.

[John]

I think some of these ideas are crazy, though it is clear the comments are filled with Obama supporters who aren't thinking about both sides of the Democratic party divide this year. Sam Nunn, Bill Bradley? These go against what Obama is talking about. These are uninspiring figures from the past. Even though we may not want to admit it, nothing says change like Obama-Clinton. Anyone thinking the first black president and first female vp is not consistent with his message is wrong. His primary message is to beat Clinton, but his general message needs to be get all parts of the Dem coalition togehter.

And I'm sorry, but the hard-core female Clinton supporters will not be brought into the fold by a Kathleen Sebelius or a Clinton supporter like Ted Strickland. The writing is on the wall, folks: it's Obama-Clinton (in that order).

[G Davis]

Everyone is forgetting that Hillary would not be a choice for VP in a vacuum...Obama HAS to consider that Hillary brings with her Bill.

No Prez is going to put an ex-Prez spouse on the ticket with them. It would completely undercut the real Prez's admin. That's not even mentioning the Foundation and it's weird connections across the world.

Wouldn't work...BUT...

Why wouldn't Hillary be a great Supreme Court Justice? As a feminist, it would be a far better path to her own personal credibility since it's an area Bill has never ventured. I believe she believes a lot of what she says and would be able to rid herself of the political circus to achieve the true goals of her heart.

Anyway...to the Veepstakes, if the Clintons head the ticket they would have to have a Veep that would acquiesce more than not. Bayh is the perfect choice. Obama...yeesh, the field is huge. I wouldn't be surprised to see someone apolitical, but with great person creds, chosen. Any really great woman CEOs out there that we wouldn't automatically think of?

[suekzoo]

G Davis, what qualifications does Hillary have for the Supreme Court? Her background is not constitutional law, she hasn't been a practicing attorney in many years, has never worked anywhere in the judiciary, never been a judge, etc. I think a nomination like that would go over as well as Harriet Miers, frankly.

I think she is well-suited to a Cabinet post like Sec'y of Health & Human Services, or something like Senate Majority Leader, but not Supreme Court.

[asdf]

Was the Charlie "Christ" thing a Freudian slip, or intentional?

Tim Kaine is definitely an interesting one not mentioned here.

I don't see the addition of Sebelius winning Kansas, even if she is popular there.

Clark would be an interesting pick for Obama if he would leave his Clinton support behind. It would be a good way to neutralize McCain's biggest strength, but I'm not sure what states he puts into play.

Why not Ed Rendell? I think Clinton / Rendell might be the strongest ticket possible for her. He would win PA for them, and help in OH, MI, and the other rust belt states. He's a loose cannon, but not any more than McCain of 2000.

[John]

Quoting above: "No Prez is going to put an ex-Prez spouse on the ticket with them. It would completely undercut the real Prez's admin."

I don't agree with this at all. VP isn't that powerful--having an ex-prez as spouse of VP is going to do nothing. It also seems patently unfair that Hillary Clinton, a 2-term senator, gets automatically disqualified because of who she is married to?! Outrageous to any woman married to a powerful or influential man.

[Copperhawk]

I wish I could agree with you, John. But Mr. Cheney has demonstrated that the right (or wrong) person in the Vice President slot can make it more powerful than the office has traditionally been.

[josh]

I don't really agree. At least not for Obama. All of them are declared Clinton superdelegates, and the foreign policy experience, no one will beat McCain on that issue, and picking a Veep who has experience there is admitting that McCain has the advantage there.

Obama cannot go with a senator because there is only 1 such ticket in the past 150 years that has one, Kennedy/Johnson, every other one has lost. So a senator is a very very bad idea from a historical standpoint. It's gotta be a governor.

I think if we're talking about Obama, our best bet is Govenor Sebelius.
This is probably more about demographics than anything else.

Pro: She brings almost all of Obama's weaknesses, Catholics, women, seniors, rural voters, and her dad was the governor of Ohio, which can give us a boost there. She can bring Kansas for Obama too. So that helps us Ohio, Pennsylvania, Kansas, and some other states
Con: Not the greatest speaker. Possibly too grounded. Doesn't bring hispanics.

Now some say that Kansas can't be brought to the dems, but that's not true. In a recent SurveyUSA poll, Obama only trails McCain by 6% in Kansas, it's more than possible, and she's very popular there, she's been able to boost democratic registration by almost 10%, so that could almost clinch Kansas. Our make it a battle ground. Actually, the same percentages hold true for all the plains states, Obama is very very close to McCain.

And Clinton can NOT be on the ticket, she'll rally the Republican base.

Obama doesn't need a white male either, this isn't a race issue, it's a gender and age issue for the most part. Obama's numbers have been pretty good throughout all ages of men. He needs a woman, and it can't be Clinton.

Can't be Richardson either because camp Clinton has managed to turn her supporters against him by pounding home this "Judas" message.

I think Sebelius works best for Obama's purposes, and as far as Clinton supporters go with this, people warm up to her pretty quickly. And she strengthens him in Ohio, and among states with demographics that he's weak in, elderly, women, & Catholics.

[Maggie]

Ben Chandler? What are you smoking?

[Marc]

This is great, Strickland's name is too long: Strickland-10 letters
Washington-10 letters
Jefferson-9 letters
Roosevelt-9 letters

Guess you prefer the short ones, like:
Bush-4 letters
Reagan-6 letters
Nixon-5 letters

Maybe we just need bigger lawn signs.

[Judy]

Sir, are you aware of how many Americans are feeling right now about Obama? Initially, I was simply a Hillary Clinton supporter - I admire her and I believe she would be a great President. I live in Illinois and honestly have not been impressed with Obama. However, I am now very concerned about the DNC and the superdelegates supporting Obama. Why? Everything points to this man harboring some extreme anti-American sentiment. His links with Rezko, Auchi, Hatem El-Hady to say just a few equals = ties with the Middle East. I believe he will destroy the Democratic Party and this country - he has already offended voters such as myself with his statements - clinging to guns and religion. Then, you have him (behind the scenes) pulling the race card.

I have never felt so strongly against a candidate as I do Obama. I am hearing it more and more from family and friend. If you think for a moment that if he is the nominee I will vote for him in the general election - you are wrong. The DNC really believes in the end the Democratic Party will come together and rally around him - NO, I will do a write in candidate or vote for McCain (regretfully).

I really don't believe I have adequately expressed how many Americans are feeling right now. I implore you to support Hillary Clinton. I implore all of the superdelegates to see the reality if they support Obama = disaster in November.

[LindaS]

Judy,
I really appreciate coming to this blog and reading informed commentary and responses by people who take the time to get the facts--about Clinton and about Obama. Please don't insult our intelligence by spewing uninformed propaganda here.

Then again, are you really one of those Limbaugh Chaos people? because you also impugn the integrity of your candidate, Sen. Clinton, by this kind of propaganda!

[Judy]

Linda S,

No one wants to hear the truth about how middle americans are feeling. So, you are saying that Obama 100% sure does not have those ties?

It is so like obama supporters to attack and then make bizarre accusations like I am a Limbaugh chaos people - I have never never listened to Limbaugh.

If you care about the Democratic Party stop with the names - Obama supporters - this type of tactic is all over the blogs. It does not well serve the Democratic Party and our country right now. What is important is the general election, and listening to how voters are feeling - not calling them names (Limbaugh chaos people) My God, when will this stop.

[-N-]

Yeah, we are 100% sure Obama does not have those ties.