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May 27, 2008

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Mr. Super lays it all out: August 31, 2007: The Democratic Parties from the four states sanctioned by the DNC to hold elections in the pre-window period - Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina - issue a pledge to [Read More]

Comments

suekzoo

Gregory: The DNC and RNC are private organizations. There are no voting rights protected by the courts or constitution when it comes to election of delegates to their convention(s). Private organizations can set the rules and administer sanctions, which is what both the RNC and DNC both did in regard to MI and FL. FL already filed two lawsuits that were thrown out of court (based on the court having no jurisdiction over private clubs), and now have a third one pending that will go the same direction - out the door.

The other point that many miss is that the vote cast in a primary or caucus is not a "popular vote" as we understand it in the GE or in electing your town mayor. It is a vote to award a delegate to a candidate. The nominating rules say that the candidate with the most delegates is the nominee, presuming that those awarded delegates vote for the candidate they are pledged to at the convention.

Jedidiah Palosaari

You should include in your timeline the campaigning that Clinton did in Florida. No one is talking about this anymore. But two days before the Florida primary she started to talk about the need to seat those delegates. The day of the primary she appeared in Florida for two "private" fundraisers- with a photo op of her getting off the plane with palm trees in the background, saying how grateful she was to be here in Florida. That's campaigning- both in Florida, and outside of Florida for Florida votes. This is an internet age. We don't get to claim we are not campaigning in the state just because we are physically outside. Not when we're trying to get explicitely get their votes. It's no surprise she won the primary. She campaigned for them.

Gregory

Thank for your comments and blog! I find them well-reasoned and informative.
Maybe I am trying to make a point without a distinction. But it seems that if MI and FL were caucuses or party-run elections then I would agree with you 100%. But they weren't. They were state elections that the DNC and RNC participated in. I guess that I would be more comfortable hearing that the MI delegation that was duly elected was going to be awarded 0 votes at the convention as a penalty rather than "the election results don't count".

Blame

Gregory

The DNC & RNC did NOT participate in those state elections. They were unsanctioned by the DNC. The fact that they took place is proof that the DNC had no control over them.

The only contol they do have is what they do with the result, and that is currently a problem for thr RNC.

States run elections, but the DNC is perfectly entitled to ignore them all and decide the winner by hair style if it so chooses.

What we have here is the mess that results when two political authorities both award themselves jurisdiction over the same thing.

suekzoo

Gregory, believe me, I know it's all confusing! :o) I've learned more about the mechanics of primaries, etc. this season than I ever wanted to know. After this is over, I'm getting a new hobbie!

I contacted the MI ACLU right after our unsanctioned primary to see if there was any grounds to file a suit. I asked specifically about the fact that MI voters could not write in a name on the ballot, which one can normally do in any election. (Tony in MI posted earlier that his son's ballot was discarded due to a write-in.) The response I got was that they did not find any grounds that would force the State to redo the vote, including that.

The law that authorizes the state-sponsored primary has to be constitutional. In the case of MI, one provision was found deficit. Read the rest of the posts earlier in this thread for more info. The structure of the rules and sanctions are in the realm of the private organization (DNC / RNC) to set and enforce. So by stripping MI & FL of delegates, effectively the election results don't count. Remember, this is not a popular vote issue. The votes cast are not for a candidate, they are for the election of a delegate. Fine line, I know.

bookish

Time to include another update reflecting the judgment handed down by the DNC lawyers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/29/us/politics/28cnd-politics.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

The Grand Panjandrum

One hopes that New Hampshire and Iowa will wait until January 21, 2009 to begin the next caucus/primary elections. It will give President Obama at least one night of partying before the next election.

The Grand Panjandrum

One hopes that New Hampshire and Iowa will wait until January 21, 2009 to begin the next caucus/primary elections. It will give President Obama at least one night of partying before the next election.

Gregory

Good points all.
I hope there is a resolution of this by the DNC RBC on Saturday and based on the election results and not hair style :>
I do have to give MI props for trying to hold a primary election rather than a caucus, I just wish they had gotten it right.

Kira

Ok - what a stupid mess. Right?

This is just like what's wrong with Congress & all these convoluted, thousands-of-pages bills stuffed with with who knows how many unrelated items.

No wonder nothing gets done. No wonder chicanery is at an all time high.

Considering what Limbaugh did with his call for dishonest Republicans to vote "Democrat for a day" due to the varying Primary dates, I think we should scrap the current method of staggering voting dates and all states vote on ONE DAY - just like we do when voting for President in November.

So far I can make no sense of the current method. Can any of you?

Blame

Kira

There is a point to not holding the votes all on one day. Sometimes the best candidate starts with little name recognition.

Starting slowly gives them the chance to build up momentum with a smaller initial budget. It still has to be millions, but not beyond the means of any Senator or Govenor who has made those who look for talent sit up and take notice.

Kira

Thanks for your response, Blame.

You say "Sometimes the best candidate starts with little name recognition." I agree that is a problem, but staggering the Primary dates doesn't really help with that issue.

For instance, Kucinich & Gravel were dropped from televised debates by ABC and NBC et al, on more than one occasion. In fact, Kucinich, who was polling at a high 4th place had not been allowed to debate since December '07. Squashed by the Corporate Media.

By the time Super Tuesday rolled around in Feb., there were only 2 Democratic candidates left - Obama and Clinton.

From SFGate article by Bob Egelko:

"The bottom line: Debates, the public's sole opportunity to see competing candidates in a neutral setting, are the prerogative of the sponsoring organizations - typically, these days, the news media - which set the criteria and have free rein to alter them."

We must address this issue if we are going to ever be able to hear all the candidates and have OUR choice ... not the one DECIDED for us by the Corporate Media.

AND - how do we address the problems we saw with Republicans voting as Democrats [for the Presidential candidate they perceived as the easier one to beat] which happened this year? They wouldn't be able to cheat this way if we all voted on one day.

MrSuper - do you have any thoughts on these issues and how we might address them in the future?

Thanks,
Kira

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